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Small Business Bestie
Entrepreneurship is hard, and sometimes we could use a friend to walk a mile in our shoes. Small Business Bestie is here to provide that friendship, support, and inspiration that small business owners need from time to time.
Small Business Bestie
51: Bold Not Bitchy- Confident Communication for Women Leaders with Katie Neal
Executive coach Katie Neal shares insights on confident communication for women leaders and the importance of understanding your core values to navigate career and life transitions.
• Transitioning from PR and communications to executive coaching after 20+ years in the field
• Creating "What The 40s" (WTF) - a small group coaching program for women navigating mid-life challenges
• Understanding that core values aren't aspirational but what truly drives us at our core
• Acknowledging that values like "family" or "kindness" may not be our core values despite their importance
• Recognizing the double standard where assertive women are labeled negatively while men are praised
• Moving beyond the ineffective "compliment sandwich" to provide clear, direct feedback
• Eliminating diminishing language like "just" and "I think" from professional communication
• Building relationships and networking as foundational skills for business success
• Being the woman who builds up other women rather than tearing them down
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https://www.katienealconsulting.com
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Hey Besties, welcome back to another episode of Small Business. Bestie, I am your host, michelle Smock, and today I get to chat with Katie Neal. Katie is an executive coach and a communication consultant, and I've known you for probably about a year now, since the first time we met, and every time I meet you it's like a ray of sunshine walking into my life, so I'm so glad that you're here today. Katie, tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do.
Speaker 2:Oh my, today, Katie, tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do. Oh my gosh. Well, thank you, michelle. It's so great to be here. I feel the same way. You are such just a ray of sunshine, a connector and an empower of women, so I hope we get to talk about that a lot today. So, as you said, I'm a certified executive coach. I help people specifically high achievers lead with intention and advance their careers.
Speaker 2:Now my own background is in PR and communications. I've done that for over 20 years and I had a wonderful career that's taken me from Sacramento, san Francisco, singapore, north Carolina and then back here to Lexington. I grew up just down the road in Paris and it's been a wonderful journey helping tell people's stories, work on a lot of cause-related issues. I even had the opportunity to serve as the lead communicator at my alma mater, wake Forest University in North Carolina, and our family found ourselves back here in Lexington about six years ago, right before the pandemic for a career move for my husband, and it's just been great being home About this time last year right around the time we met, I think, michelle I was just feeling really stuck and I got very curious about what was going to be next for me in my own career, and I don't know if you've ever felt this way, but I was senior in level, but sort of mid-career in age, if that makes sense and I thought what am I going to do for the next 20 years?
Speaker 2:Here's what I know. I don't want to do crisis communications all the time, and so I got really curious with that and I realized that my favorite part about my whole journey had been helping other people navigate their own personal and professional crossroads. So I went back to school and became a certified executive and leadership coach and I've been doing that now for almost a year and it's been a wonderful and fulfilling journey. That's incredible.
Speaker 1:I did not know that you have a background in PR, but I will say it makes so much sense now because one of the things that I think of most frequently when I hear your name is the what, the 40 program, and how much that instantly spoke to me and how your messaging was like so spot on, like you had identified your target market so clearly. You couldn't have been more clear about that and you identified that like working with you was not going to be some stuffy, you know, run of the mill not to say that other coaches are run of the mill, but you know, like that you had a differentiator in that you were, you know, fun, kind of feisty. You had a little bit of flair to you and you made that clear in the title of your program and I thought that woman knows exactly what she's doing. So it makes sense now to find out that you were in PR.
Speaker 2:Well, thanks for saying that. You know, when I launched that program, which is a small group coaching program for women in their 40s, called what the 40s or UTF. In fact, if you're watching online, you'll see I've got this little.
Speaker 2:UTF sticker. But I really wanted to create something that women like myself, like my friends, like you, would feel resonate with them in this pivotal time in our lives. Right Like you may or may not be caregiving on either side, or perhaps both sides. You may or may not be working a busy and full-time job. You likely are experiencing a lot of body changes. You know you're thinking about all these sorts of things and how do we get through them. And I found that just having a small group of women to help be on your sideline and be in your hype squad and that's moving through this chapter together has just been a really inspirational and motivating way to do it. And we keep it small for a reason. There are lots of programs out there that can help you, that are huge, that are nationally known. This is eight to 10 women that you get to know that are on your side. So thank you for saying that WTF is one of my favorite things that I get to do.
Speaker 1:I love it so much. I knew instantly that we were going to have a lot of fun chatting together because you're just like I said, that marketing piece of it was like so in line with the way my brain works, so I appreciate that so much about you, Thank you. Okay. So you've got what the 40,. What other programs do you offer or how else can people work with you?
Speaker 2:Well, so I do a number of different things. One on one coaching is where I spend the bulk of my time, so working one on one with an individual, and they can be any high achiever. You know my clients span industries and identities, although I will say I do tend to attract high achieving women, as well as communications, marketing and media professionals. And I think that makes sense right, just because I have lived and understand firsthand many of the experiences that they're going through. And when you just really can relate to someone, oftentimes there's a bit of an easier connection. Now I'm also coaching men in sales organizations, and so that's something that I've never been and never done. Totally fine, but the most important thing when you're in any sort of coaching relationship is that you just find that right fit and you feel a good connection. So one-on-one coaching we talked about WTF.
Speaker 2:I'm also doing a lot more speaking. So, on everything from, I'm excited to speak with the Women's Business Center of Kentucky in May about tackling imposter syndrome, perfectionism and burnout. These are three things. I will readily raise my hand and say I've dealt with those for most of my life at least my professional life Right, and a lot of us have, and so I think, one, knowing you're not alone. Two, figuring out what's really holding you back when it comes to these sorts of challenges. And then three, how do you develop a set of strategies that works for you? That just it just blows the doors wide open. So that's one of my favorite things to do. And, as you wide open, so that's one of my favorite things to do and, as you can tell, brings in a lot of my communications experience as well. There are other topics too, and then I do some communications consulting, also on the side, although really primarily my focus at this point is on leadership coaching.
Speaker 1:Wonderful. So before we started recording, something just kind of organically came up in our conversation and you told me that one of your core values is fun and, like I've already mentioned, like you can see that in your branding and the playfulness that you bring into even naming your programs and things like that. How important do you think it is for you to identify and know and connect with your personal core values when you're thinking about, like, the tools to overcome imposter syndrome and burnout and those types of issues that we kind of come up against?
Speaker 2:Oh, great question. And they are foundational. I mean, and here's the thing I had never gone through a values clarification exercise until I did my coaching education program last year. But when we did that and then I sort of tossed around with my husband, with a couple of really really close friends, with my mom, a few other people what do you think about this? Do you think this is me? Do you think this is me? And they really they were big mirrors for me, right? They said, oh yeah, that's you a hundred percent, or I'm not sure it's that, but maybe it's this. So whenever you're thinking about why does my life feel like there's a tension or a rub in it. That's all values related. It's so important to understand those and so rewarding to walk people through that process.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think for me like I'll be completely raw and honest, like I usually am, because I'm an oversharer, but I think for me, one of the most difficult things has been like uncovering what my true personal values are, because we have this like again coming back to that imposter syndrome, right Like we have this idea of what our values should be or what we want them to be, so that we can fit into some mold or some idea of who we thought we were going to be or what we thought was going to be important, and really getting down to the root of like but at my core, when I peel away all the layers of what will other people think of me?
Speaker 1:or am I going to measure up, like at my core, what are my actual values? And I think that when you get down to that, it really opens the doors wide up of what the possibilities for your life can be when you stop worrying about trying to make your values into something that don't really align with your soul.
Speaker 2:A hundred percent. When I was going through my values clarification exercise, I really wanted kindness to be one of my values. Guess what? It's not. It doesn't mean I can't be kind. It doesn't mean I can't show kindness. It doesn't mean that I can't support others with empathy and compassion and kindness, but it's not. They're not aspirational to your point. They're not something you have like money. Money's not a core value. Does money make life easier? It sure does, but maybe frugality can be a core value, because that's something that you've just always had as a part of you. Or travel it's not a core value.
Speaker 1:Maybe it's adventure.
Speaker 2:Maybe it's a love of learning, maybe it's cultural diversity and appreciation, but travel itself is not so. It's so fun to help people think about and really hone in on that. So like, for example here are my six and I have one that it took me to your point. It took me a minute to acknowledge and say, yeah, that's one of my core values, cause it's fun to talk about fun. Right, but achievement is one of my core values, and for women, I think, in particular.
Speaker 2:Many of us have been conditioned not to ask for recognition. Many of us have been conditioned not to ask for recognition, to try to shine. You know, be humble, be show humility, do these things I'm like. Here's the reality. I've always been really driven by achievement. I was a super competitive child. I do not like to lose.
Speaker 2:My greatest fear has always been, and still remains to be, failure, even though I'm working through that. Right, I'm doing the work. But I like to be good at stuff and I like to win and I really just need to own that, and so saying that about myself it was like eyeopening. Okay, well, if I can own that, then I can recognize the bright side of that. In the shadow side of that. What about that makes me a better coach? What about that makes me a better friend or partner? What about that makes me a better coach? What about that makes me a better friend or partner? What about that makes me a good volunteer to have on your team? What about that? Can come across the wrong way, oh, yeah, yeah. So the other ones for me are trust, relationships, communication, responsibility, and then achievement and fun.
Speaker 1:That's incredible. I love that you know those about yourself and you can see that. You know there's so many philosophies out there that say that there's a bright side and a dark side to anything and everything in this world. So, yes, like having those values, like achievement, there are good, good aspects of that, but it can also be kind of a detriment as well, if you allow it to be so, like acknowledging that For me, recently I've been having to do a lot of value work.
Speaker 1:I've mentioned before on the podcast that my husband and I are separated and we're, you know, working through some issues in our relationship and I think that, as we've gotten down to the core of that, one of the reasons that we've had such issue is because I wanted desperately for family to be one of my core values and, truthfully, at the end of the day, I love my family and it doesn't mean that I can't be a good mother, a good wife, a good sister, a good daughter. But truthfully, down deep, family is not one of my core values, you know. And just owning that and understanding that because it isn't one of my core values, it does not make me less than as a mother, a wife, a daughter, a sister, you know any of those things, but that it's not at my core. What motivates me the most?
Speaker 2:you know that's right. That's right and I applaud you for saying that, because I lead women through this in WTF and over time they tweak them a little bit right as we get deeper into the core of the work that we're doing. Typically, people's first pass at their list isn't quite right. Some of them may hit the nail on the head. Family is not one of my core values either, michelle. Relationships is, but that transcends my family. There's an application for friendship, there's an application for professional, there's an application for professional relationships. Just connection and relationships are so important to me. Yes, of course, in my family and in other places too.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I love that. Thank you for being honest and helping women to get down to that core of who they really are and what their path can look like if they can get really honest with themselves. I think that's such important work.
Speaker 2:It is, and why are we in our mid-40s talking about this right? Why aren't we talking about this at the formative years? So I'd love to see, over the next however many years, that change. So the younger women and younger men too. Everyone can walk through confidently and know exactly who they are, what's important to them and why it matters 20 years ago, this is what 40 year olds were talking about.
Speaker 1:I have no idea, but I'm hoping that as we continue to be more vocal about this, to make more connections based on these principles and ideas, we will normalize that and we will start to pass these ideas on to the next generation at, you know, younger and younger moments in their lives so that they don't have to deal with it when they're also dealing with perimenopause and all of the other fun things you know that 40s bring, so the cascade of injuries is never ending.
Speaker 2:But, yes, wouldn't that be a lovely legacy to leave for those who follow.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I'm going to pivot just a little because, as you and I kind of fleshed out the ideas of like what would be the most fun, the most interesting thing for us to talk about, you threw out an idea to me that I just absolutely love, because one of the biggest challenges for women in any sort of leadership role whether it's being a business owner or being an executive within a company or even just leading small teams within companies one of our biggest challenges is that sometimes assertiveness can come off as being a bitch, and that has happened to me so many times, especially because I definitely have RBF. I have I don't know if there's a word for it, but like I also have active bitch face. So I have RBF and ABF, so I just kind of have this like look about myself where I feel like I can be misinterpreted, and especially because electronic communication is so prevalent, right, right. So talk to us about what did you call?
Speaker 2:it. I called it bold, not bitchy. Confident communication for women leaders.
Speaker 1:Go for it, katie. Tell us all about it, because I need it.
Speaker 2:Well, we all need it. But look, here's the thing Confident communication shouldn't come with a character assassination, and I am so tired of cultures and situations that label men one way and women a completely other way when they are taking the same action or showing the same behavior. Do you remember that Taylor Swift song, the man? Oh yeah, I remember it. That's like my theme song, it's my favorite. It's my favorite. In fact, I watched it again before this podcast, just to hype myself up. I love it, you know.
Speaker 2:It's so true, though when a man leads, he's often considered the boss, and when a woman leads, she's often considered bossy. But the challenge and the problem doesn't lie within the leadership. It's about the lens. It's not that the woman is any less than, or the man is any more than. It's just a difference in perception that we have seen time and time again play out in cultural norms, in workplace norms. So let me give you an example. Let's say that a woman decides that she wants to negotiate for a raise. How dare she? How dare she? A woman might be coming across as pushy or entitled. A man may know his worth and be assertive. Now look, obviously we can't paint every organization and every corporation or company with the same brush. So let's be honest that we're talking in generalities, but I've been called a bitch before.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, because I don't tend to back down when I feel strongly about something and it's not about the achievement, although, if I'm being honest, sometimes that does creep in a little hard. As a communications professional which is where I've spent the last 20 plus years you have to call out the things that you see as a foreseeable consequence to any decision or action that your organization might be taking, and sometimes leaders don't want to hear that. They don't want to hear that customers are going to be upset if you have to raise the prices to pay for X, y, z, the prices to pay for XYZ. They may not want to hear that a decision about corporate downsizing is going to come off the wrong way to employees if you pin it to. You know we overstaffed during COVID. You have to be able to call those things out and sometimes they take people the wrong way. But giving direct feedback is not harsh or abrasive. At least it doesn't have to be Right. Regardless of who's giving the feedback, it should be direct and accountable.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:I think that in my experience anyways because I've never worked in corporate so I have a very different lens that I'm even seeing the problem from right.
Speaker 1:But even as like a business owner and having employees, I feel like there were definitely times that I would go to my husband and say I need you to have this conversation with this employee Because if I have it, they're going to think that I'm just like picking on them or that I'm being like I don't know the right word for it but like a perfectionist. You know, like the standards are such and if I try to hold their feet to the fire or hold them accountable to living up to those standards, it's taken one way where my husband who's probably just a more soft spoken person to begin with, but he could have the same conversations and they take it so much more acceptingly that he's holding them accountable. So from a different perspective like I was never in that corporate role but I could definitely see even in our small business that you know, when I held people accountable, it was seen one way. If he held them accountable, it was a totally different perception that they had.
Speaker 2:I wish I could say that surprised me. Unfortunately it doesn't. You know, so often we find ourselves in these situations where there's some sort of I'll use the word confrontation although that may even be a little stronger than what we really mean where we need to communicate something that might be difficult. And what's the old standby right, the compliment sandwich. That's the worst, and I will be the first one to admit that I used it a lot earlier in my career.
Speaker 2:A lot, a lot, and it's not helpful because you're not really making the main point. You're trying to make the most important point, you know, for example okay, michelle, I really loved how great you were at networking at that last event. The next time, do you think you could please be a little more attentive to the registration list? I noticed that there were people who came in and didn't get signed up and now we don't have their emails and we can't help them. But again, you're so good at working the room, just keep doing what you're doing. Well, hello, muddy message. Right Like you're great, you're great. This part did not meet expectations, but, gosh, you're great.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:What are we saying? We have to be intentional about that.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I feel like the compliment sandwich has always felt very disingenuous to me. I've never appreciated it, because when you hear that first compliment you're like, oh, they really like me. And then the but or the and comes in and you're like so you didn't actually mean that first thing you said. You just felt like you had to tell me something good first you know.
Speaker 2:And isn't that the shame? Because you probably did mean both of those other things that you sandwiched it with and yet maybe they don't hear those at all. Right, because you also need to say this. So, like, let's say, we're in a performance review situation, right, and if you're in a corporate environment and you know, you say here are the things that you are doing really well and you're excelling in, make a clear delineation here are a few opportunities where I think you have room for growth. Or, if you need to be more direct, here are some areas where you're not meeting the expectations of this role. Right, it doesn't sound mean, it doesn't sound bitchy, it's clear, and in that way, it's actually kind.
Speaker 2:Because you're letting people know what it is that you expect, what you're observing and where they measure up and when. Let's be honest, most of us don't work for fun. We work because we get paid, because we have bills and we have a life, and so when there's money on the line in people's lives and financial responsibility, you owe it to them. To be clear, yeah.
Speaker 1:And what if that person's core value is also achievement? And then you're not giving them a real opportunity to live out their value right? If you're not telling them what the clear expectation for achievement is, or whether or not they're living up to that, then, man, now you've done even more damage than financial.
Speaker 2:When you're dealing with a high achiever, they're always looking for that next goal, and so if you're in a managerial position and you're not able to articulate that for them, that's also going to rub against their value and it'll be harder to earn and keep their trust. If they don't feel like they're continually growing in your organization, they will look for somewhere that will value and honor their growth path.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. That's such a valuable point and you know that these principles like yes, they are important in our work lives and they are important for communication within the corporate world or small business. But also, if we could just take these lessons and bring them like into our home life as well, whether that's relationship with family or friends, like, If you're clear with your friends about what you need and expect from your relationship, how much healthier is that relationship going to be.
Speaker 2:That's such a great point and I've had this conversation with my husband before and in the context of girl time really fills my cup. I just really need set aside time to spend with my friends and when my husband, when that really clicked with him, I noticed that he didn't get. I don't know if upset is quite the right word, but he really accepted and encouraged me to. Why don't you go have dinner or drinks with your friends? Why don't you go grab a pedicure with so-and-so? When is the next time you're seeing the Paris girls? Just really making sure that I'm getting that because it fills my cup. He knows that relationships are important to me, and especially that group.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that so much, having that support system to help you fulfill the values that you've set forward, and it allows you to have those conversations without being bitchy. Right, you're just bold. You go to him and you say, hey, I'm going to go have a pedicure, and it's not like you know this expectation of there's, you know like the expectancy of having to argue about it or having to defend your right or your you know privilege to be able to go do that. It's just, this is my value and you know that, and now we can communicate about it openly.
Speaker 2:Exactly, and it gives you the power and the agency to ask for what you need. So whether you're in a work setting or a home setting or a friend setting, you can say I'm feeling a little bit off. Do you mind if in the next week or so I find some time to go spend with my girlfriends? Or I'd really like to go take a walk tonight just to kind of clear my head. Would it be okay if you handled bedtime? There are ways that we can apply these kinds of strategies to our entire lives and they make everything so much easier. When you're not worried about how you communicate, you can just live a little bit freer, and isn't that nice.
Speaker 1:That is so nice. I was just like, as you said, that I had this moment of clarity, of, like the situations where I have had employers, if I felt like I had the agency to go to them and say, hey, there's been a lot going on this morning and I'm a little overwhelmed. I'm just going to take a long lunch, I'm going to grab some wholesome food and go sit in a park so that I can get some sunshine and I'm going to come back this afternoon totally revitalized. You know, if I had felt like I had that ability or that agency to say one of my needs is to recharge with some good fresh air, how much conflict could have been avoided if we had been able to have that clear communication.
Speaker 2:And so much of it's internal because we never even voice it out loud, right? So our boss doesn't even know that we need a break. Right, because we haven't had the courage, or maybe just the right words or the approach, to confidently communicate that to them the way that you just said that, michelle. I think you'd have to be a monster to say no, michelle, you need to go back to your desk and you need to crunch those numbers and you need to record that podcast. Come on, that was so reasonable and there's been so much written about and so many studies done about how just getting out in nature and eating healthy food and taking a break is actually really good for a recharge and a reset. It makes us healthier and more creative.
Speaker 1:Crazy thing is is that every employer that I can even think of in my mind, not a single one of them would have ever told me no. In fact they would have encouraged it. But it was my own battle with that imposter syndrome or feeling like, you know, as a woman, I can't ask for more than a man might ask for in this same role, or I have to perform, I have to, you know, maintain the status quo. So it was all in my own head of being afraid of how I would be perceived if I asked for what I needed.
Speaker 2:And leading with fear is never the answer. Nothing ever good comes from leading with fear. So in WTF to go back to that, each week we tackle a different F word, and yesterday we had a session and it was on fear, and this is one of my favorites, even though it's one of the most difficult, because you really you know, to talk about our fears is hard and then to share it with eight to 10 other women is is requires vulnerability and trust, and I heard a few themes over and over and over. Confidence is one of them. But what is it? You know? A lack of confidence. They're afraid to to speak up about what they need.
Speaker 2:I also heard a fear of confrontation. Well, when you peel back the layers of those onions, sometimes it's not actually the difficult conversation that you're afraid of, it's the fear of rejection or the fear of how someone will perceive you as weak, use air quotes, or the fear that someone may not agree with you, right, and so when you sit back and you think about what are you actually afraid of, and then when you can answer that, it's so much easier to develop ways to solve for that in your daily life, at work and at home, when you know what's holding you back. You can use your values to inform how to navigate through that, and then you can use your confident communication strategies to put the words around it that just make it part of what you say to people all the time.
Speaker 1:I feel like I've just had a major coaching session. I need a glass of wine and a bubble bath to let all this sink in and really encapsulate it into my soul. Thank you so much. You're so wise Well.
Speaker 1:I don't know about that. I mean, I feel like the experiences that you've had have given you such a good platform to be able to communicate effectively with other people, but also to like, very gently, nudge in a direction of giving other people a voice, to confidently communicate. So I feel like you are definitely in the right role. Whatever conversations you had to have with yourself to put you, put you on this trajectory, I'm glad that it happened.
Speaker 2:Well, I appreciate that you said that, and the great thing about coaching is that it's really all client driven, and so the role of the coach is just to ask questions and to hold a safe space for clients to be able to say things that maybe they can't say anywhere else. But it's a hundred percent like vulnerable. I mean it feels like we are. We are sort of having that sort of a conversation right now. You just happen to be recording it and then we're going to play it for lots of people. But the but the great thing is that all of our experiences, even the ones that we look back on and say, gosh, I wish I'd handled that differently They've put us on a path to where we are today. So we have choices right. What do we learn from those and how do we apply those lessons moving forward? That is part of what I'm trying to help people do every day.
Speaker 1:I love that. Okay, so tell me a little bit more. We've got one-on-one coaching. We have WTF. Are there other group coaching programs that you do, or is WTF the only group?
Speaker 2:There's something to be said for how people show up to support and encourage each other. So, for example, there are two women in my current group that are both seeking employment and they were both involved in corporate downsizing, and I found out this week that outside of the group they connected one-on-one to share experiences, share notes, do things like that. So I'm open to it. What are you seeing as a business coach that would help other people, or maybe other women, navigate through the crossroads that they're facing right now?
Speaker 1:I think for me, and to be completely fair, like I took a big step back for several months as I navigated my own WTF moment, you know, Right right, how do I get started, what are the steps? Abc, to start an LLC, to get my business registered, things like that. But beyond that, the coaching that I do is, honestly, let's learn how to connect with other women, with other professionals, with other business owners. Let's learn how to build those relationships. And so I think for me, facilitating relationship building is huge and whether that's virtual, across the country, across the world, or whether it's your local community, you know, in-person coffees and things like that For people like me and there are so many business owners who you know are coming at this from a different, you know kind of a different lens Maybe they're not coming from corporate, from a different, you know kind of a different lens, Maybe they're not coming from corporate.
Speaker 1:Like I'm not a college educated person, I don't. You know I didn't come from like sorority life. You know I wasn't taught how to build relationships and connections with people. You know I joke all the time that until I moved to Kentucky I didn't even know what the word networking meant, and that's not a lie, Like I honestly didn't know what it was.
Speaker 1:And so I think for me, like helping people understand how to build those connections is so vital in business success, professional success, and like I just keep coming back to it because for me right now, given the place that I am in my life, I'm finding that those connections that I built, yeah, they're great for my professional life, They've helped me build a business and all of those things. But in my time of need, those are the same people that stepped up and threw a housewarming party for me when I moved out and have checked on me and made sure I'm okay and taken me out for dinner. So those same people are the ones that I'm depending on and leaning on, because that's the community that I've built, and so I think helping other people create that is high on the list.
Speaker 2:It's so powerful, right, and it's such a show of empathy I mean, I was just re-watching this video. It's an animation of one of Brene Brown's talks that she gave years and years ago but about how empathy is really, about crawling down in the hole with someone who is in a place of discomfort or trouble or concern and not saying, hey, do you want a sandwich? Instead just really like holding their sadness or their pain or their grief or their fear or whatever it is, with them and saying I'm so sorry I don't even know what to say right now. Right, but I want you to know that I care about you and you're not alone and I'm here for you. What else can you say to someone in that sort of a moment? And so, when you think about the importance of relationships and communication, they're intertwined. You can't extract one from the other. They're intrinsically linked. And so, and the thing is, we all have both. We all have relationships, we all have to communicate.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:So why not try to make the relationships better by investing in how you're communicating with people and showing them concern, and showing them compassion and empathy and giving them a hug whether that's an actual physical hug or a mental hug or whatever that looks like for you, but just showing people you care is so important, and I used to say when I was in PR like PR is a relationships business, and it is, but life is a relationship business.
Speaker 2:Everything about it is Any industry. Pick an industry and tell me that it's not. Of course it is. Four out of five jobs are found through networking, not through applying online through LinkedIn not to discourage anyone I'm sure that people do get jobs that way but spending time investing in those connections is so great. So I want to thank you for that idea and I would love to continue to brainstorm with you on how maybe we can make that a reality here, because those are skills that that I actually can help with and that can complement skills that you bring to the table, and we both can complement skills that this person who's not in the conversation today brings to the table and we might not even know that we need.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I love, love everything about this conversation and I think that there's so much potential. I'll always brag on Lexington. I love this city, I love the community here. You know, like I didn't do anything that anybody else can't do, I just happened to land in a really beautiful city with a really beautiful community of women who really truly support one another. You know and we throw around those like women, supporting women and all of those things, and I think that that's more true here than probably in a lot of places. We really do have a core of women who want to see each other succeed, want to uplift one another, and I couldn't be happier to be in this community and especially with people like you here, and I think that there is a huge potential for us to be able to collaborate and continue to uplift women and bring our skills and, like you said, the women and possibly even men who are listening, you know, to bring them into the conversation to really help encourage that and continue to grow and support one another. I love that.
Speaker 2:You know I love everything about what you said as a coach. I'll ask you one question.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:You started off saying I just love Lexington. It's not that I've done anything that anybody else couldn't do, or this or this or this. How might you reframe that to acknowledge the leadership role that you've played in building a community like Small Business Besties?
Speaker 1:I will reframe that to say I was bold, not bitchy, and saying I have the skills to do this. And people like me gosh darn it. And if I ask them to be on this podcast and to join this Facebook group, they probably will, because I am worthy.
Speaker 2:There you go, and I didn't even expect a Stuart Smalley reference, but I love it and it's so true and so like. That's the power, Right, and it's also just really indicative of if you've got one of the city's premier small business motivators, coaches and leaders here not taking credit for what she's built, then how are the rest of us going to stand a chance? And that's what you and I have the opportunity to help lift up others.
Speaker 1:You know I bet you'll go ahead. I was just going to say this is such a prime example. Like we say all the time, coaches need coaches. And like, yes, I was just telling somebody the other day like I've been out of my coaching platform for a couple of months now and I am seeing it in in not only my speech, you know, I'm reverting back to old habits of discrediting myself or not wanting to, like I don't want to sound like I'm being, like too presumptuous or, you know, I don't want to sound full of myself or whatever, but also in the way that my thought process is working.
Speaker 1:I'm seeing a lot and I think that I'm grateful for the life that I have, that coaching is an option for me, and I'm grateful that I know so many amazing coaches, because I think that each coach has something different to bring to the table and that I think that there's an element of God or the universe that's always bringing you the coach or the mentors that you need at the right moment. You just have to be open to receiving that. So, even if it isn't in a traditional coaching relationship, where you know money is being exchanged and I pay you and you give me coaching services, like there's always a coach willing and able to coach you. You just have to be open to receiving it.
Speaker 2:So that's such a great point, and not every coach is gonna be the right coach for every person. I'm not the right coach for everybody, and that's okay. If you can accept that for yourself as a coachee and yourself as a coach, then great. Then that gives us the agency to say it was so nice to meet you, I really enjoyed it. Let's stay connected on LinkedIn and cheer each other on, and I'm going to move in a different direction and I'd like to stay in touch.
Speaker 2:No hard feelings Absolutely Professional, clear, kind, professional, bold, not bitchy. Bold, not bitchy Exactly Exactly kind, professional, bold, not bitchy. Bold, not bitchy, exactly Exactly. I love what you said, too about like the speech and the thought patterns, though Can we talk about that for a minute, because so many of us rely on different types of words or phrases that we don't even know diminish our power. So just, I think I'm sorry let's stop doing that. I listened to myself on another podcast a few months ago and, gosh, was I hypercritical of myself afterwards, and it had been a long time since, you know, as a PR professional, I had usually prepared people to be on the podcast, not been the subject of it myself, and so I felt like my cadence wasn't quite normal. I said right a lot at the end because it was someone that I'd known for a long time. We were enrolling each other's affirmations and feedback and just having a great conversation, like you and I are, and I thought, gosh, I don't sound like what I sound like.
Speaker 2:And I had to step back from that too and say why am I being so critical of myself when the feedback that I got from other people was very kind, it was affirming, it struck a chord with people and I'd heard from people that I hadn't in years. So what is it about me that feels the need to tear myself down? Oh yeah, that's a hard question to ask yourself, and the reality is I needed to address again perfectionistic tendencies that I have and that I need to hold on to. They're not serving me well and so I need to let those go.
Speaker 2:As we are all in situations, whether we're making presentations, whether we're in a sales or new business pitch, whether we're talking to a friend or a partner or a teacher Well, I'm sorry, mrs So-and-so, but I don't think you're being very fair to little Sonny here, you know. Just say it Right. Please, mrs So-and-so, can you help me understand how this grade reflects what he's done so far on performance Much more clear, much more kind, much more professional and doesn't make you sound so wishy-washy. That sort of vagueness creates confusion. I'm just popping in to check on that deadline. No, I'm checking on the deadline that was due yesterday. How are you progressing with that?
Speaker 1:Right, I got um had the honor of sitting in on a mini class with um Cindy Hall. Do you know Cindy Hall? I don't know Cindy. She's a local coach, a fabulous lady. I love her to death. She's a John Maxwell certified coach. And so there's just on your podcast. No, I haven't had Cindy on, okay, sorry.
Speaker 2:Go ahead.
Speaker 1:No, that's okay. So I was in like a really short mini class with her and the whole focus of her little mini class was the word just yes.
Speaker 1:And how important it is for us to just get that out of our vocabulary. And I thought on that the whole drive home, which was a long drive because it was all the way in London. But the amount of times that I preface something that I need to say it has to be said, it's not rude, it's not derogatory, it's just something that has to be said and I preface it with I'm just checking in or I just wanted to follow up, or I just need you to help me understand this. None of that. Words have so much power.
Speaker 2:They really do have power and to put a fine point on that, I just hope nobody goes back and listens through this podcast with a fine-tooth comb.
Speaker 1:How many times?
Speaker 2:you and I both probably said that right.
Speaker 2:I'll use AI to delete it all. Perfect, great. We'll just put a little disclaimer. All words just deleted.
Speaker 2:So I mean, who knows? There are all kinds of these things that we do and we don't even know it. So if you're listening and you're wondering, well, how do I know that I do that, there are a few tips that are really tried and true. Number one enlist someone you trust. You know. Maybe it is or isn't your partner, maybe it's your work bestie, maybe it's a friend, someone that you can count on to invite to be the person who will say you said it again, you said it again. I don't know how often you realize you trail your sentences in, so I don't know if you realize how often you avert eye contact when you're having a difficult conversation. Invite that sort of feedback. Another option is to record yourself on Zoom, figure out what your idiosyncrasies are we all have them and then make an effort to practice deleting those, perhaps one by one. You can also practice in front of a mirror. Does it feel silly? Of course it does. Does it help you?
Speaker 1:Yes, it does. Or you can start a podcast and then listen to your episodes and go golly. I say I love that so many times. I love that.
Speaker 2:That might be the bravest thing to do of all of the strategies. So there you go. There's always another one in the toolbox.
Speaker 1:Katie, I've had so much fun talking with you. I wonder is there one thing that you feel like we haven't been able to touch on that you want to make sure that people know either about you, your business or word of wisdom that you want to leave everybody with.
Speaker 2:That's a great question and I will. Before I answer it, I will say whenever you are asked that question, friends always say yes. In PR we call that question the gift because it allows you to make a point that you haven't made before or restate something that perhaps you bumbled over the first time. So just a little free PR advice, that's called a gift. And the answer is yes. I didn't know I was giving a gift. You were. Thank you so much, thank you. Notes will be in the mail.
Speaker 2:But if there's one thing that I want people to take away, it's that you know this is something we haven't talked about and I feel so passionately about this. So let's go here. Be the woman in the room who builds up other women. Don't tear them down.
Speaker 2:We've all worked with or met or known the person who on the side has whisper campaigns and you know, maybe we'll seem like they're your friend or your colleague when it's one-on-one and then in the meeting, when you need support, they're not there, they're quiet, they're practically ghosting you. We are so much stronger and we will be able to shift these norms of the different labels that men and women have in the workplace if we build each other up and we amplify women's voices and we mentor those who are the future leaders so that they can also be confident in who they are all of who they are, in their accent, in their skin color, in their sexual orientation, in their gender identity, in their hairstyle, in natural nails or really glam nails, it doesn't matter. Be yourself and lift up the other women who are also being themselves. I love that.
Speaker 1:I really do. I will leave on a very vulnerable note to say, as you were giving us that gift, an instance popped into my mind recently I was not the woman in the room lifting up other women and I owe someone an apology. So I'm going to give them a call when we get off this podcast and reach out and tell them that I'm sorry that I wasn't that woman. And I'm saying this because it is important that we own our mistakes and that we know that when you make a mistake, it does not have to remain a mistake. You always have an opportunity to right a wrong. So I'm going to be brave and do that. Thank you for the reminder, thank you for holding me accountable to being the woman that I say that I am, which is a woman who supports women and lifts them up, and thank you.
Speaker 2:And then, once you do that, you can give yourself that grace that you would give the friend if she were calling you to do that same action, and you can let that go. Let it go Knowing that you, you know what I made a mistake here, because I am a human.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I'm going to do that and I'm going to make more, but I'm acknowledging it, I'm calling to apologize, I'll be sincere, and then I'm going to give myself grace and say, okay, that's done and we're moving forward. I think that's beautiful, michelle. Thanks.
Speaker 1:Thank you for everything, Katie. I look forward to working with you and seeing you. I cannot wait to hear your talk at Strong Women, Strong Coffee. I believe this episode will drop before then. So do you happen to know that date off the top of your head?
Speaker 2:It is Tuesday, may 20th. It will be at Guide Realty on Winchester Road in Lexington Fabulous group of women. And in the meantime, before or after that, you can always find me online at katienealconsultingcom. That's K-A-T-I-E-N-E-A-L consultingcom, perfect.
Speaker 1:I'll make sure to link out to all of your social media and your website in the show notes and description. And I am just so grateful to have you in my life. I'm so looking forward to all of the wonderful things that we can continue to do in this community.
Speaker 2:Me too. Thanks for everything that you do to support women, michelle, so grateful for you and glad to be here.
Speaker 1:Absolutely All right, friends. We are going to finally get off of this and quit giving each other so many flowers, but we will talk to you guys next time. All right, besties. That does it for today. If you're interested in becoming a part of the Small Business Bestie community, join us in the Facebook group or find out more information on the website at smallbusinessbestieorg. Please share the podcast with your friends, who could use A Friend in Business and it would really mean so much to me if you follow the show and take just a few seconds to rate or review. A five-star rating really helps the show become visible to other besties who may just need the support and friendship that we offer.